Transcript: Raffaele Sollecito - Katie Couric Interview

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Katie Couric interviews Raffaele Sollecito, Broadcast September 18, 2012

Couric: Raffaele Sollecito, welcome. And I know that your new book…

Sollecito:  Thank you so much

Couric: … "Honor Bound, my Journey to Hell and Back" ..

Sollecito: I'm really glad to be here 

Couric: … "with Amanda Knox" is out today. Thank you very much. I know this is also your first interview in English 

Sollecito: Yeah, this is my first one. I'm a little bit [unintelligible]

Couric: So you're a little bit nervous yes, So we're going to make the questions clear and I will speak slowly and concisely. But a lot of people I think might be surprised, Rafaele, to learn that you only knew Amanda Knox for nine days 

Sollecito:  Yeah It is

Couric:  When this happened, tell me what was your relationship like?

Sollecito: Well, we started our relationship since the first day we met. Umm.. It was. umm..  We kissed  umm.. to, upon beautiful sparkling light outside of Perugia. And ah, just the day we met, and ah, during the night we met. And, we started ah, really it was a really nice relationship. It was a dreamy one because I was living alone in my apartment and we shared almost all the day long. We just…

Couric: You are inseparable you were together all the time? 

Sollecito: Yeah, almost all the time just for the lectures we just split for, during the time of the lectures at University. And so in that period she was much more at my apartment than in their one. It was really an intensive, umm..  intensive story, but it was the start, the start of knowing Amanda. So. It, yeah, so it, it's crazy. 

Couric: It, it was that sort of wonderful beginning of a new romance. You were both sort of swept off your feet. I know you were especially. So nine days into this relationship. You are finding yourself in the middle of one of the most sensational murder cases in the last decade, what was that like going from this sort of love affair with this beautiful young girl to this nightmare?

Sollecito: We, yeah, so four years of nightmare. It's hard to explain that, but just the media made, the media frenzy build up,builded up an image that doesn't exist, is not the real image of me and Amanda. 

Couric: But there were some things that raised suspicions and you can understand why the two of you became a target for the investigation. I know the morning after the murder, after Amanda had spent the night with you, she went back to her apartment. She found the front door was open, that blood was in the bathroom. 

Sollecito: No, no, there were literally the little droplets inside the basin. 

Couric: but blood was in the bathroom.. 

Sollecito: No, inside the basin.. 

Couric: the basin, but also on the carpet. There was some on the carpet as well right? 

Sollecito: No, no it was kind of a water ah, um, stain but if it was not so clear that it was blood. 

Couric: Meredith's door was closed and locked, and Amanda didn't call the police. Did you find that strange? In retrospect maybe at the time you were confused about what was going on, but why do you think she didn't call the police immediately?

Sollecito:  Well, she didn't know Italian very well and she had no emergency number to call. I called the local Carabinieri right after I discovered all this peculiarities but no one was thinking about something bad because the media described it like there was blood in the, in the bathroom. But, you, there, there were only very little droplets that can, can came also if your nosebleed or is bleeding, so it's not so alarming the situation you look around. And she didn't know,  umm.. the broke window. Well, after I realized all the peculiarities around step-by-step I, I alerted the local Carabinieri.

Couric: And you called the police.

Sollecito:  And, umm.. Yeah

Couric: But there were other things. I know Rafaele,you both claimed you were at the apartment the night of the murder, and, but your stories were sometimes inconsistent as you know. Amanda confessed to being at the scene, being at her apartment. She then recanted., You told police at one point you didn't know if she might have left your apartment that night because you were asleep so it seems there are still a lot of unanswered questions. So can you understand at least why the police considered you two suspects?

Sollecito:  Well, the police, the police, the detectives they wanted it. [full response appears edited out]

Couric:  You all say you were naïve as well.. 

Sollecito: Yeah we were, we were [uninteligible]

Couric: You didn't get lawyers.. 

Sollecito: We didn't, I didn't feel the need to have a lawyer because I , I didn't touch anything. I didn't get into the murder scene, I, ah, I was completely, logically for me it was impossible that I would be ever charged with a murder like that. 

Couric: I think one of the strangest things that people observed following this murder was your behavior and Amanda's behavior when you all were cuddling, you were kissing, outside the murder scene, almost right after the body had been found and was being removed.. 

Sollecito: But, Amanda was shocked. She was completely shocked, she was staring inside, the mm.. In, in the middle of an empty space, and I was the only one who was ever there to comfort her. It was a comforting kiss. Her family was right ah, right on the other side of the world at that time. The only person she could trust at that time was just me.

Couric: but also you were snuggling at the police station. She was doing a cartwheel during your interrogation even you admit in your book Rafaele, that her behavior made you uncomfortable in retrospect.

Sollecito: No, it's not her behavior that made me uncomfortable. The detectives had eyes on us since the beginning. 

Couric: So you think it was perfectly fine to be sort of cuddling and, at the police headquarters, and for.. 

Sollecito: no, no it wasn't fine. 

Couric: I mean, I know that you've written that you did not feel comfortable with that. 

Sollecito: Yeah, but I didn't feel comfortable because of the Amanda behavior. That was not the right moment because the detectives had eyes on us. So I felt comfortable, uncomfortable for that not because Amanda's personality. 

Couric: When we come back. I know were going to talk about what Rafaelle thinks happened that fateful night and what it was like to reunite later with Amanda in Seattle.. 

[break]

[Video of Amanda in the Seattle airport]

Couric: that was Amanda Knox last October when she arrived back in Seattle after spending four years in an Italian prison. We're continuing our conversation now with Rafaele Sollecito, Amanda's ex-boyfriend, who was with her on the night of the murder of Meredith Kercher in Italy. Raffaele, you spent almost 4 years in prison. What was that like? How did you spend your days?

Sollecito:  It was impossible to bear, I wish no one would experience what I experienced. Because six months at first of solitary confinement having all the world against you. It's a wound that it's hard to, to a, to heal.

Couric:  Did you stay in touch with Amanda while you were in prison? Did you exchange notes and letters and communicate?

Sollecito:  Yeah, um almost umm.. Once a week, almost once a week and on average and we shared any kind of thoughts, just talking about days how the days passed on, how, just sharing magazines, books, music CDs. We, we told the relationship with our families, with friends. 

Couric: I know that police your lawyers even your own father tried to get you to turn on Amanda during the course of this.. 

Sollecito: Yeah, um 

Couric: this investigation, but you didn't. Why was it so important for you to stand by her?

Sollecito:  Well I cannot blame my family and my friends to just push me and say, making me realize that I was risking all my life for a girl that I had dated just for, only, something more than one week. It was terrible. And, but, I, um, just, on, on the plate there was ah, just, be, umm, umm, my life over or throw Amanda under the bus. But these two place for me had the same weight, because I cannot walk on the street being a free man just realizing that I'm the reason for a 20 years old innocent to be spend the rest of her life in prison. 

Couric: What do you think happened that night?

Sollecito: well, it's hard to, umm, to imagine what happened that night to Meredith but umm, my defense team just investigating found out that Rudy Guede, this guy, was in the murder scene, did the same kind of barbary to a lawyer office almost one month before. This style was almost the same. So hmm, just realizing that this guy was over there er, umm, was used also by the prosecution to, uh, to charge us. 

Couric: And he is now serving 16 years in prison for the crime and you believe justice has been served? 

Sollecito: Ah well, umm.. I have other ideas about the enjailment in general.

Couric: You think the sentence should've been longer?

Sollecito:  Ah, Well, I'm ah, I don't want to judge,  Eh, uh, I, ah, I, ess, For what I experienced, em, for me, um the enjailment is no reason at all. So, um, it's not the amount of years that you spend in prison that can relieve, er, uh kind of, er, umm, umm, [audible gulp], kind of pain like that. 

Couric: When we come back we are going to talk about your reunion with Amanda Knox.

[break]

Couric: We're back with Raffaele, Amanda Knox's Italian ex-boyfriend. I know that you reunited with Amanda in Seattle in April, you went to visit her. What was that like for you? 

Sollecito: Well, um, I had to spread the image of Amanda that was a ghost brought by, er, portrayed by the media um. in a bad way thas was my nightmare for four years. And the real Amanda, th, th, they, with, during that dreamy week. So when I look at her, I was, I get stuck a little bit. I was nervous, because I, I had, I had the still psychological wounds of this nightmare that had passed in prison. And, her, the, she, her image brought me up also the image of the nightmare. But when she hugging me after a while, um, I realized that Amanda is, the Amanda that I dated for that week, she is not the Amanda that was my nightmare, the ghost Amanda that was the nightmare during the four years. 

Couric: Do you wish you had never met her?


Sollecito:  No. I don't regret it. Because it is not her fault. The fault is from the detectives who brought up the case.

Couric:  And do you still communicate with her now? Are you in touch?

Sollecito:  Yes, we Skyped, we Skype sometimes. We exchange e-mails. Last time she is sent a song for me d.d. during the last Skype communication.  

Couric: I know that the prosecution is appealing your acquittal. There is a chance you could, but it is quite remote, that you could go through another trial, go back to prison. What would you say to a significant number of people who do still believe that you and Amanda were involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher what would you say to them?

Sollecito:  Well, um, I'm pretty sure that they just followed the case by the media. The media frenzy created just a figure that is, is, it doesn't exist. So they created a story to brought just to keep the audience, to keep the audience and make money. They just accepted what the prosecution brought to them. But all the details, they spread around were, were without any circumstance around. They were disconnected to each other and they created a fog of nonsense. So I wrote a book and just to have the opportunity to talk about me to, to keep the figure of me.. 

Couric: And to give your side of the story 

Sollecito: to take the figure they portrayed and take that figure back to me, to my, to my own, and just tell the truth and the story of what happened during the all over, all over this ordeal.

Couric:  It seems to me that the one person almost forgotten in all of this is 21 year old Meredith Kercher who was brutally murdered that night. Her family says they are still looking for answers. What would you say to them today now that time has passed?

Sollecito: Well, um, I cannot barely imagine their pain, there suffer and I'm really sorry for that. But, and I wish them, really badly, I wish them to find out what truly happened to their daughter, because if they found the truth about what happened to her. That would be also for me, um, um, a way to move on because finding the truth is the, is also the truth for me. That we, me and Amanda, we were not there, er, during that night of the murder.

Couric: Raffaele Sollecito, the book is called "Honor Bound My Journey to Hell and Back with Amanda Knox. Thank you very much for being here today. We appreciate it. Everyone here in the audience will be getting a copy of your book. Thank you.

Sollecito:  I'm really glad to be here. 

Couric: Thank you. Thank you.

Transcript: Charlie Rogers 911 Call - Hate Crime Hoax?

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Operator: 911. Where is your emergency?

Rappl: [beeped out]

Operator: Phone number you're calling me from?

Rappl: [beeped out]

Operator: what's going on?

Rappl: umm.. My neighbor just came over and knocked on the door. She said her house is on f..fire and  umm.. She's not got any clothes on. She's handcuffed.

Operator: she's handcuffed?

Rappl : Yes! Umm.. She's not got on..

Operator: Do you see flames or smoke?

Rappl: no I don't. She lives right across the street. She lives at [beeped out]

operator: she lives at.. Where?

Rappl: [beeped out] and I live on the corner of [beeped out] and she lives right across the street from me on the east, to the east of me.

Operator: Okay. And you don't see any flames or anything?

Rappl: no. [beeped out]

Rappl to Charlie Rogers: you say your house is on fire?

Rogers: yeahs

Rappl: she says yeah but I don't see any smoke or anything.

Operator: Okay well we're startin' everybody.

Rappl: Okay. I appreciate that.

Operator: Why is she wearing handcuffs can you ask her that?

Rappl: I… I don't know.  umm.. Anyway, were standing out, We have a, I have a ramp on the east side of my house, we're standing out there and umm..

Operator: Okay. Is there anybody else in the house?

Rappl to Charlie Rogers: [come here, here puppy]… Charlie, is there anybody else in the house?

Rodgers: no. nobody's in the house.

Rappl:  no, nobody's in the house. [Come here.] I'm trying to keep her dogs, there too. She's worried about her dogs.

Operator: so she lives alone there?

Rappl: uh-humm, yeah.

Rogers: sorry

Operator: So who put her in the handcuffs then?

Rappl: I don't know you want to talk to her?

Operator: yeah

Rappl: okay, go, just a minute.

Rogers: h. h. h. h. h. Hello,

operator: hello, are you okay?

Rogers: no n.no No

Operator: Okay what's going on? Why are you wearing handcuffs?

Rodgers: somebody broke into my house.

Operator: Somebody broke into your house. Is it on fire?

Rodgers: yes, yes, I saw them, I saw them light it on fire, and they cut me.

Operator: Okay.

Rogers: and I can't find my dogs.

operator: someone broke in, handcuffed you and cut you?

Rogers: yes, Sir! [sobbing]

operator: okay, we're going to get an ambulance there too Okay? Are you okay?

Rogers: I I I I don't need.. I mean..  yeah. [sobbing]

Operator: How long ago did they leave?

Rogers: just a few minutes ago. I I I couldn't see them.

Operator: you couldn't see them?

Rogers: no they were in my basement. I think…

Operator: were they wearing masks?

Rogers: I was sleeping. Yes, Sir.

Operator: Okay, how many men?

Rogers: Three..three..three

Operator: did you see them leave in a vehicle or anything?

Rogers: I didn't see anything. I just…

Operator: okay, I know I know it's hard. I'm sorry and I am just trying to get some information, I'm sorry. Try to calm down if you can. I know it's not easy. Okay?

Rogers: [sobbing]

Operator: There's nobody else in your house?

Rogers: Nobody's.. I live by myself with my dogs.

Operator: what is your name, ma'am?

Rogers: my name is Charlie Rogers. Sir, [sobbing]

Rogers: Sir, they did it because I'm g.g.gay. They kept saying…

Operator: they did this, they told you they did this because you are gay?

Rogers: yes. I performed with a little kid last weekend… at Pride… and they they… they… They said, they told me stay away from kids.[sobbing]

Rogers to her dogs: Tye.. No.. Tye.. No..[Dog's barking aggressively]

Rogers to arriving police: Nobody's inside.

Operator: is that a police officer?

Rogers: Yeah yeah.

Operator: hopefully they can get the handcuffs off of you.

Rogers: Okay okay it's a zip tie.

Operator: Oh it's a zip tie handcuff, Okay. well, they'll be able to get that off.

Rogers to arriving police: No one else's inside.

[Dog's barking aggressively]

Rogers: is that all?

Operator: Do you see an officer there? Charlie, Talk to him.

Rogers: Okay, bye.

Operator: all right. B'bye.

Rogers bye

Opinion: Sabrina Benitez tells how Baby Joshua went missing

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Peter Hyatt's Statement Analysis of this declaration can be read here.


Sabrina Benitez said: 
"We were all in the house. There was nine people in the house. I was sitting on the bed watching "Toy Story" with my baby. He was wandering from our room to the living room, where the other family members were. When I realized about 10 minutes that it was unusual my baby hadn`t been back in the room to come get a toy, come watch the movie, I jumped up and I ran to the grandfather`s room, where there was another baby that my baby was interested in and asked if he was in there. When the grandfather`s girlfriend told me he hadn`t been in there, so I ran out to the living room and I asked everyone if they`d seen the baby. Westarted searching, but there was no signs of the baby. I ran out of the house and everyone started looking, and we called the police about 10 minutes because we realized we had no -- nowhere to -- where we hadn`t found him." 


"We were all in the house. There was nine people in the house."


"We" "all" She starts by creating a consolidated group out of everyone in the house, we know from her statement that at least two of the members of "we" were toddlers. At least two were adults, the other four members of "we all" are never identified although they are mentioned often. Her troops are martialed. She begins with unity.


"in the house" - she says this twice, later she runs "out of the house" Inside and outside of the house is important. It is important enough to the story to say repeatedly that they are inside the house. Otherwise why say this? Of course everyone was in the house. This isn't an answer to "what happened?", this is in answer to "Why?".


"we were" - "there was" First there is unity, then disunity. Her change of language indicates something is missing from the story here. What were the comings and goings? How did all nine end up "in the house?"


"I was sitting on the bed watching "Toy Story" with my baby."


No she wasn't. He was wandering. She may have been sitting on the bed, and who knows what she was really watching, but her baby wasn't sitting there. And she wasn't watching him either. She says so next. 


"He was wandering from our room to the living room, where the other family members were."


He wasn't watching the movie at all. Did the other family members see him "wandering"? Was anyone paying attention to him? Did he always wander like that? 


"the other family members" - this is hugely distancing. It's not "the rest of the family" or "my family" or "his family", instead it's these "others". 


"Other" refers to someone else than.. Who is the someone else? 


"When I realized about 10 minutes"


"when I realized" - if you have a toddler and you suddenly "realize" your baby isn't with you, it can only be because you are deeply distracted for a longer period of time than the requisite very short period of time during which a mobile toddler can be left unattended. This short time duration is arguable, but it is certainly not 10 minutes. This makes me doubt the 10 minutes, particularly as it is repeated again later as yet another time milestone which sounds reasonable to the mother, but in fact is not. She was distracted, she doesn't know for how long, due to alcohol, drug use or just pure selfish neglect, she stopped paying attention to her baby and at this time we are not suprised to find that now "something happened."


"that it was unusual my baby hadn`t been back in the room to come get a toy, come watch the movie,"


It was only "unusual" that her baby didn't come back during the "10 minutes", It was not unusual that she did not realize sooner that her baby was out of her care. It certainly wasn't shocking or truly unexpected that he be gone. what if it was five minutes? Would that be "unusual" or just "typical?"


"hadn't been back" - means it was expected that he comes and goes. Back and forth to the living room where the "other family" were. 


"come get a toy," "come watch the movie" - to come, you must not be present, and then you must enter the room. All parts of this sentence indicate it was expected that Joshua would wander. Also "come watch the movie" appears to imply that he did not watch any of it at all. Again, I say she was not sitting on the bed watching a movie with her baby.


"I jumped up and I ran" 


She runs three times but she jumps only once. She jumps here, now. This is where the tension in the story resides. During this first "10 minutes." Something shocking happened, she probably did jump and run. It just makes no sense for a lackadaisical mother who thinks 5 minutes out of her sight is ok, but 10 minutes is shocking enough to jump up. Something else made her jump. 


"to the grandfather`s room," - 


This would not be the maternal grandfather or surely she would have referred to him as "my father" Also, as he is referred to as "the grandfather" and not "his grandfather." - we can see that there are fractures forming in her "9 person" militia of self defence. We need to ask at this point, why did you jump and run to this man's room, presumably your baby-daddy's father, when you had only just told us you jumped and ran in shock because Joshua hadn't returned from the living room. Shouldn't you have checked the living room before worrying he might be with grandfather? 




"where there was another baby that my baby was interested in"


Why was this important enough to mention? It's not in answer to "what happened", it's completely about "why", Does what happened have something to do with his interest in this other infant? How does an 18 month old show interest? I'm unsure why this was included, and what makes it important enough to report, and to report it as the first thing that came to her desperate mind. I'm thinking if the truth were ever known we would find a logical connection here. Was the "other baby" being abused?

"and asked if he was in there. When the grandfather`s girlfriend told me he hadn`t been in there," 


She goes to the door of this room, she doesn't go in because she "asked if he was in there", and she is told by presumably the "other baby's" mother that not only was Joshua not there, "he hadn't been there" 
Ever? Since when? 


"so I ran out to the living room and I asked everyone if they`d seen the baby."


She's running again, this time "out" to the living room. Now the "other family members" are being pushed to the outside of her consolidated group. They are "out", she is "in", she had to run "out" to get to them. After jumping and running from her room, now she is merely "asking" people if they had seen Joshua. She doesn't first call to him, or look for him, she "asks" and what is even stranger, there is no response. She doesn't tell us if the "other family members" saw him at all that day, evening, or during the supposed crucial 10 minutes. It would be very important to know the last time they did see him, but this account doesn't say.


And then, we leap over time from her "asking" if he has been seen, directly to the searching.


"We started searching, but there was no signs of the baby."


"We Started searching, but" - I really expect to hear a mother taking personal possession of a search for a missing baby here. "I jumped", "I ran", but not "I searched" This sounds so apathetic. What is "a sign" of a baby? Babies leave trails of themselves every waking moment of their lives. Dropped bottles, scattered toys, boots and socks stripped off. Yet these things won't help you find your baby. Only calling for him, and actively searching for him, or worst case, checking doors and windows for ways he could have escaped from the collective 9 people. So why was she looking for "signs of the baby?" What I read here is a mother who may have started the searching "but" was relieved that "the others" found no signs of what had befallen her baby, Her emotionality is focused on the finding of signs, evidence, a trail of what happened, and there were none.


"I ran out of the house and everyone started looking, and we called the police about 10 minutes because we realized we had no -- nowhere to -- where we hadn`t found him."


She runs one more time, this time out of the house. Very strange this "we called the police." Who did? One person called the police, why not say who it was? Would she have said "I called the police" if she actually did? I don't think she was the one who made the call. Someone else there did, and it was "about 10 minutes" again. That magic 10 minutes. She explains why they called the police, or tries to, yet has to stop and edit herself twice. They stopped searching and called the police because they hadn't found him. They "had no", they had "no where to", because they simply hadn't found him. Is she trying to say they had nowhere left to look? She had given up hope after 10 minutes of searching? It takes more than 10 minutes to search under every bed, and inside every cupboard, corner and closet. Babies hide in curtains, in bathtubs, they curl up to sleep in toy boxes and packing crates. Why the sure knowledge of failure after only 10 minutes? The only reason I can think is she already knew what had happened to him and where he was.

Billie Jean Dunn speaks to Web Sleuths Radio - February 12, 2012

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Transcript of Billie Jean Dunn, mother of missing Hailey Dunn, and Carrie McGonagal , mother of missing Amber Dubois, speaking on the Web Sleuths Radio Show - February 12, 2012
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2012/02/13/websleuths-radio


HOST: Billie are you there?

BJD: yes,

Host: Help us understand what is true and what is not, okay,  so how about this Billie how about if we just start with the day Hailey went missing. Tell us about that day. Tell us what happened. Walk us through everything that happened that day including when she went missing. And when you found out


BJD: okay. Well I have hundreds of times but I'll put it out, I'll say it again umm.. She went missing on Monday. I didn't find out till Tuesday. So Monday when I was at work, Shawn called me at some point in the afternoon. I guess it must've been around 330 or four because it was after Hailey left the house and before David got home so I asked him what my kids were doing and he said David isn't home yet and Hailey went to her dad's and she's spending the night with Mary Beth. So I said okay. So that night after I got home, David did come in my room, after I was laying down maybe nine or 10 o'clock and he said mom I don't like Hailey over at Mary Beth's her boyfriend's always there. And I said well that's good to know she's probably going over there anymore. I was little upset Hailey didn't clear it with me anyhow - she had just cleared it with Shawn.


BJD: So the next day. I thought she'd spent the night with a friend. Around noon I called David, I said go ahead and call Hailey.. Hailey's friend to tell her to tell Hailey to come home now. So David did that, and called me right back not too long later and said "Mom. She said Hailey didn't spend the night there" and I said get over to your Dad's because he lives basically across the street. I said Go over there and see if Hailey spent the night there. And this was already very unlike Hailey, she never done this.


Host: Right So now you're worried

BJD: So.. Right. I'm already panicked. David went over there, called me back said "Mom, Hailey didn't stay the night there". Clint didn't have a phone. I said David take my phone back over to your dad's and let me talk to him. So he did. I got Clint on the phone and I told him I'm coming home. I was at work 20 miles away, I'm coming home. You go ahead and go to the police station and file a missing persons report. Hailey is not where she was supposed to be. And I thought at that time. I asked had Hailey at least stopped by there . And I thought that he told me Naomi said she did. But I wasn't here I was with my friends playing video games.

Host: could you repeat that.

BJD: Clint said that Naomi had told him Hailey did stop by Monday but he wasn't there. He wasn't there. He didn't see her.

Host:  Okay. And Naomi is ?

BJD: Clint's girlfriend

Host: could you please speak up.

BJD: So I get my sister all to come and pick me up from work and to bring me back to Colorado City so I can find my daughter. We got into town. I went by her best friend Heather's house. Nobody was home there. So we went by Heather's grandma's house and didn't get an answer, so I left a note at Heather's house and then I went to the police station and reported her missing. After that for a couple of days, it's pretty hazy.

Host:  Okay, so when you say hazy you mean because it was so stressful and..

BJD: I think so. Before I reported her missing. I can remember everything very well . But actually going to the police station and having to report your child missing is too overwhelming and I just don't remember things really well

Host: your mind can certainly shut down to protect you because you got so much stress. Carrie (Carrie McGonagal, Amber Dubois's mom) do you have anything you'd like to add or ask Billie?

Carrie: Billie there was a time that you called for.. Did you call the Texas Rangers and stuff. I know that you called us. You called..

BJD: oh yeah. I called the Texas Rangers, a week or two into it because I felt not enough was being done. I called them a couple of times and then Clint called FBI and I called FBI before FBI also got involved, also..


Host:  Understand that the people that on web sleuths and myself. We are not asking these questions to embarrass you or to make you feel bad, but it helps us know what's going on and it helps to get, I know you told this story 1 million times

BJD: There are people with their minds made up. I've put the truth out there over and over again.

Host:  I know that. But when I'm just learning some of this stuff new tonight. I didn't know some of these things that you're telling me this is good. I have an affidavit here. It was about getting a search warrant and it said that you took a polygraph and it said that the first one you had to stop because you were taking narcotics. Were you taking any narcotics the night or the day after that Hailey went missing?

BJD: umm.. The same… same night I did. Monday night. I did. I had hydrocodone and  antibiotics for a bad tooth

Host:  Okay so I'm thinking that maybe that might be the cause of some haziness to be add that to the stress of that happening

BJD: probably so

Host:  I want to talk to about this affidavit that I have I'm sure you've seen it but first I want to talk about something to get cleared up. Carrie and I were talking before the show about something. There's an article in a newspaper called Ccitynews.net and in this article, it claims that Hailey's family has not made it easy for the police department to work with them and to try and find Hailey. According to the article the police department gave you a phone for maintaining contact after your phone was seized it was seized by the police. But then you disconnected the phone. That's not true. Tell me about that.

BJD: No they didn't give me a phone. They did take my phone, turn it off. Umm.. Never monitored it. I called it several times. I had family that called it several times.. The voice mailbox is full. It's not been checked. It's turned off. It goes straight to voicemail still. They took my phone and I never got a reason why I didn't get the phone back. I really wanted it just because of pictures Hailey had put on there of herself, but FDI did come in sometime later because I already had another phone from one of my best friends, she gave me her phone to use. FBI gave me another phone and I kept That one also. I only use the cell phone my friend gave me. I use that one for everything. I only use the one FBI gave me to talk with primarily the Texas Rangers. When it ran out of minutes, I didn't put more minutes on it.

Host:  So if the police needed to contact you. Do they have a way to contact you or are they just playing with words here by saying that they're having trouble contacting you?

BJD: Oh definitely yes they had my other number as well because I was calling up there several times a day and they would always.. Oh they're busy.. They're in meetings let me take a message. They always took my other number down.

Host:  When was the last time that you called them?

BJD: It has been a long time. Since my arrest.

Host:  Why is that. Is there a particular reason.?

BJD: I was, I had been cooperating with them and doing things they asked me to do even if I didn't agree. I just did it just because just to let them get over this 'n so they would start looking for Hailey instead of playing who done it. So I was very cooperative up until umm.. I got arrested. And I just decided it's, it's not paying off. And it's not working. Mainly because that night when I was taken to jail,one of the DA detectives pulled me out of the cell several times to accuse me of having some knowledge of where Hailey was or what had happened to her and telling me that she was deceased. Which I can barely even say that. I don't want to think about that. I still feel like the worst thing that I can do is give up hope on my daughter. And I can't, I hate the man. I think he's a snake now. I think he's the devil.

33:35

host

Host: let's talk about your arrest because maybe people don't know about that. Billie you were arrested for according to the police, giving them false information when they were trying to find your boyfriend at the time, Shawn Adkins. Correct?

BJD: it was. It was. No it was lying to a police officer because they asked was Shawn there. I told them no.


Host:  Right right . Lying to a police officer right. What happened with those charges?

BJD: There were other charges that were completely dismissed or dropped because they were so bogus. The lying to the police officer, that happened. I did that.

Host: let's back up. Why did you lie. Why didn't you let them know Shawn was there?

BJD: I'm not even sure. I just know that Shawn didn't wanna talk to them. Their vehicle pulled up and I said to Shawn. I think they want to talk to you and he said I'm not gonna talk to them. I don't feel like talking to them right now. So at first I told them Shawn wasn't there.

Host: so Billie can you see why people might go Well! Here her daughter's missing and she lies for her boyfriend and I see why the police did it. It was a pressure tactic to see if they could get you to talk but I think you can understand how that might look. We are talking about perception here and sometimes perception and what is really the truth can be two totally different things. Can you understand how people can look at that and see that she's protecting her boyfriend. Why would she lie?

Carrie: one of the things I'd like to say and I've seen it multiple cases is that there's not a liaison person between law enforcement and the family and it would've happened in Amber's case we had our lead investigator on it and he double-crossed and he threw me under the bus in front of my boyfriend about something that happened. And I looked at and it's like it's done. I will never speak to you again. And for the rest of Amber's investigation I never spoke to that person again. They weren't smart enough to get a liaison person right away. I don't think I would ever spoken communication with law enforcement would've been nothing. I would've stopped all can indication that's how much I hated that person and Billie said straight up but with the Billie Jean had a good relationship. Up until I put the cuffs on her. Well no ship really. She broke that trust Billie was completely cooperative tell up until he put the cuffs on and that's when when the communication home and it halted in Amber's case also when the investigator you can have investigator also be the liaison you have to have someone a middle person that is that trusts that that the family trust. If you want to continue open dialogue.

<Carrie is very hard to transcribe, she doesn't finish sentences and speaks very quickly, so I did not error check this much.>

Host:  Let me say something. Billie, this is something you have to accept. Billie lied to the police. That's the difference. She lied.

Carrie: But then they returned! What happened when they returned, Billie?

BJD: Well they didn't return. He just asked if could he come in and look and knowing he was gonna find him and I could've told him no. I told him yeah come in and look. I don't care. Shawn wasn't supposed to be there, anyhow. I didn't think I, I think he was waiting for his mom to come and get him. because we were arguing. But. So. I don't know I just told them yeah, come in.  and so he came in. And  went and got Shawn and talked to him and just set us on the couch. They didn't let me know what was going on and I just didn't understand anything. Another police officer came over and she took me into my bedroom and would not let me go out of my bedroom and wouldn't let Shawn come in my bedroom To check on me. And she held me there until <unintelligible> came and arrested me and asked if he could search my house again. And I said yeah.

Host:  I understand where you're coming from. I do think Carrie and I have talked at length about this and again I don't want you to think that I'm jumping all over you or anything but you know you lied to the police. They can arrest you. It's just black and white there's no. If you hadn't lied to the police – they couldn't have arrested you. There is your perception of reality and I understand what you're saying but let's talk a little bit about Shawn. Okay because a lot of people have a lot of trouble with Shawn. Now He admitted according to this affidavit to threatening you and to threatening Hailey. Correct.?

BJD: According to the affidavit. The affidavit is anything the police want to say to be able to get what they want. He's has never accused Hailey and he never said that he did either. I disagree with many things in that.

Host:  This is why I want to talk to you. Has Shawn ever threatened you or threatened Hailey?

BJD: He has threatened me. He has never threatened Hailey. That's a whole completely different story.

Host:  What do you mean a different story. Tell me what you mean?

BJD: That's completely different. You don't threaten my children. That's just way completely different in my eyes and in my mind. If you're mad at me and you want to talk ugly to me that's fine but he's never said anything about my children. He wouldn't have been there.

Host:  So you're saying He's never threatened Hailey at all.

BJD: No

Host:  Okay, but he has threatened you. Now some might ask he's threatened you. Therefore he is dangerous and he is in your house with your children. Do you feel that Shawn is dangerous, you had a restraining order placed on him. Correct?

BJD: Yes, and that was again more just to try to work with police and I'd basically given up yet I still took out the order like they asked me to. And now when I wanted to have it pulled back. I couldn't

Host:  He did threaten to kill you. Correct?

BJD: Yes

Host: I thought Shawn had said he threatened Hailey that's not true. You're saying, according to you that didn't happen.

BJD: No.

Host:  Okay I can only go by the information that I have and that's what I'm going by and I'm so glad that you called in so that we can get to all of this. Again with Shawn Are you still with Shawn?

BJD: Yes. I have no reason not to be. He stood right beside me and he's been the one constant. He's been there with me, day in and day out comforting me every time I cry every time I'm upset Shawn is the one there.

Host:  Okay he failed two or three lie detector tests was it

BJD: He failed one, and so did I and so did my brother.

Host: That doesn't cause you to go wait a minute he failed.

BJD: Of course it did. After I failed? And then I went home and told my brother and my brother said you know what I did too, they told me not to tell you that. And I knew something was wrong. When I talked to my lawyer and he says let me guess who did the polygraph. And of course he got it right and he said those people are a joke. He called up a man I forgot his name. He said this guy was basically wrote the book on how to give a polygraph correctly. That man got on the phone. He also knew the names of the guys who gave us the polygraph and he said what a complete joke they were, he also didn't understand why they were still allowed to give polygraphs. There were questions like do you, did you do anything to cause Hailey's disappearance. Yes of course, I left her at home that day by herself. They asked Shawn and my brother could Hailey be in Scurry County. Hailey could be anywhere. Just very terrible questions – like a set up

Host:  so you felt you were set up to fail. Basically, is what you're saying.

BJD:  Oh yeah. So if they never wanted to look,the easiest thing to do was to pin it on to the boyfriend.

Host: According to the information that we have. It's understandable that they would look at the boyfriend and you that when a child goes missing- they search from the inside out. First they start the people closest to them and then move out. I'm gonna get back to Shawn in just a moment. I have a question.. What is the biggest misconception about you that you would like cleared up?


BJD: um about me, there's so many about the whole situation.. that I could've ever hurt my daughter. There are people that actually think I did something although I was at work and I'm the one that reported her missing. There are people who think Shawn did something which he did not. There's not a way in the world that he could ever hurt Hailey, or hurt me in that way. That's the biggest misconception. Or the people who think that law enforcement do not lie because that is the way I thought too.

Host:  According to this affidavit Shawn has said many things to them. I'd like to go over with you. Shawn according to the affidavit – Hailey was promiscuous and kind of said some really awful things about her. Did he say those things?

BJD: No. He said that as I did, that Hailey was boy crazy. She was not having sex. He knows that. She was not promiscuous. So I know that, I know he didn't say that.

Host: So the police are lying in the affidavit then.

BJD: Yeah they lied a lot of in that I think

Host:  Basically, this is what the public has to go on. So these are where the misconceptions are happening. Okay, this is why it's good for you to come on and just answer flat out. Now in the affidavit Shawn said that he was fired the day that Hailey went missing but according to his supervisor, that's not true that he just walked out. He got to work at 6 AM according to the supervisor. Shawn was a very good worker. They all liked him. Shawn went to work the day that Hailey went missing at 6 AM went to the break room, got a Dr Pepper, and then left at 610. According to the affidavit cell phone pings do not show him going straight to his mother house like he said. Your comments. Please.

BJD: He went to his grandma's house. He quit his job. He did not tell me about that because we'd had problems about his job situation in the past. He certainly didn't tell me he was gonna try to get another job before he told me umm.. But he did quit. The thing with the cell phone pings he did not go to my house. He drove through Ccity to get to his mother's, which he would've had to.

Host:  So again I'm a little confused

BJD: ..and the timeline was, with it also. He had enough time to get from work, stop his grandma', knock, they weren't up and then go to his mom's house.

Host:  I may have just lost track of what you were saying. He did quit but he didn't want to tell you right. So why did he tell law enforcement that he was fired?

BJD: I don't know. I don't even know that he did.

Host:  So you feel that that is something else that they could be lying about, right?

BJD: Maybe I don't know.

Host:  According to Shawn's boss he just walked out like he didn't quit or anything is that we told you he did?

BJD:  umm.. I can't remember exactly if he told somebody or he just walked out. I don't know.

Host:  Let me tell you why that's important. Normally it would mean nothing but it was the day Hailey went missing so these type of details you know can clog up an investigation and just make it stop unless you can find out exactly what happened and if somebody isn't telling the truth then it messes everything up.


Host: The FBI does not need to obtain search warrants…

BJD: carrie the FBI did tell me, probably two or three weeks ago that they had not much if anything at all to do with Colorado city law enforcement. They've never agreed with certain things, so it wasn't exactly them. It wasn't FBI that had anything to do with it.

Carrie: why doesn't local law-enforcement use FBI for what they're there for. Where they don't have to give an affidavit. Hey we need a search warrants. There were 50 of them served on Amber's case that nobody knew anything about because with the FBI. They don't have to prove anything. I forget what it's called and they get all the information they need, phone records and everything else they don't have to follow all the same rules that law enforcement have to follow.

BJD: probably because they didn't agree on everything. Colorado city wasn't trying to cooperate with FBI. I know that other towns came in, chief of police, I'm not supposed to know about this so I won't say who, offered their help, also, and Colorado city, early in the beginning said no we have it under control. They've turned down help from Equisearch. You guys. I was able to call you and ask you to come in. You could just do that. You didn't need law enforcement approval. Thank God or they would've told you no. They did tell Klass kids though, But they came anyway. Equisearch needed law enforcement's approval which we could not get so they were never able to come in.

Carrie: and that is what everyone doesn't understand they ask why doesn't Texas Equisearch come in. Most most agencies like us don't come in unless we work with law enforcement

Host: The last thing they want to do is have the search party come in without the backing of law enforcement. It's impossible. It would just make everything so much worse. We are talking with Billie Dunn, the mother of missing teenager Hailey Dunn and we have Amber Dubois' mother Carrie on as well. We have lots of questions coming in. I'm kind of hopping all over the place here I just want to make sure that were clear on this. Billie you said you have talked to the FBI recently. When was that?

BJD: maybe three weeks ago.

Host: and what did you talk with them about?


BJD: I called to clear things up. Rumors I had heard. That's why I called and then we talked a little bit about the case. Cleared up some rumors from <interrupted>

Host: What did they say were they responsive

BJD: I wanted to know why, I wanted to know why they were following a psychics tips going out to the airport digging around what was the deal with that. What was it really that led them out there. The FBI really doesn't have much of a clue what Colorado city's doing and that's basically what they told me. I told them I I needed somebody that I could talk to and they said exactly I did and They just wanted to make it very clear that umm.. It's not them who rake this over the coals and I know that.

Host: Okay, okay, got it.

BJD: I also wanted to kind of find out what was the deal with Hailey and Mexico which I was told Naomi completely lied about that. They never thought she was in Mexico Naomi said that they found her in Mexico but couldn't just run in and get her. But I knew that was a lie, but I wanted to ask more about that, Anyway.

Host: So Naomi is your ex husband and Hailey's father's girl friend. And you heard that she claimed that Hailey had been found in Mexico and you wanted to call and make sure  if that wasn't or was true right

BJD: right

Host: Okay okay Were kind of just going through slowly but surely so that we can get all of this cleared up. Hang tight for just a minute, I want to get back to the affidavit. Okay according to the affidavits while Shawn was being interviewed. He showed them his phone that had information on it. They gave it back to him. They asked to see it again before he handed it to them, He deleted the information they wanted to see. According to the affidavit. Have you heard about that at all?

BJD: yeah and that's completely ridiculous. They said show me where you called Billie so he pulled it up and showed it to em,and then I guess a couple minutes later,he said you know what show me that again. Shawn looked for it and couldn't find it, but all it was, was a phone call made to the hospital.

Host: Okay, got it. What about this video on YouTube? Didn't you find that disturbing?



BJD: umm.. I think I just think they're crazy young immature boys trying to get a rise out of people who did it.

Host: It certainly did get a rise out of people. But Billie do you see as we go through everything why people and I'm not trying to pile on here. I'm just trying to get you to see the perception out here. He threatened to kill you. People said he's threatened Hailey and Hailey was afraid of him. You said, no he's not. You lie to prevent the police from seeing him – you were arrested. He claims that he was fired and his boss says no he just walked out. Supposedly cell phone pings didn't have him where he was. Then we add…

BJD: <interrupting> yeah, they did. The cell phone pings.. No the cell phone pings had him going to his mom's house,

Host: Okay, so you're saying the cell phone the perception of the cell phone pings having him somewhere differently. That is not correct according to you.

BJD: no, it did not put him, they did not put him somewhere that he wasn't supposed to be, they showed him exactly where he was.

Host: Got it got it. Understood. Let's talk about what was found on the computer I was reading what was found. And honestly, if someone looked at my computer, I'd be mortified the stuff that's on there. Just because of what I do with web sleuths. I have a bunch of serial killer stuff, true crime stuff, morbid things all of that. A lot of people do, but apparently there was something on here that law enforcement really felt there was very disturbing pornography on the computer. I have been told or we have been told what are your comments on that?

BJD: I've been told the same thing. And I just don't know if I believe it. But even if it was it's not Shawn's computer. There were so many people that had access to it. But no, I don't see him ,his mom, his little brother, his stepfather looking at anything like that. His stepbrothers I don't know them at all, I just.. I don't even know if I believe that anything was on there.

Host: Okay So you don't think that there was any child porn on there?


BJD:I know there wasn't child porn on there somebody would be arrested, and if there was child porn on there, It's a damn shame nobody was arrested.

Host: I agree. If there was child porn on there somebody should've been arrested because that's ridiculous.

BJD: exactly

Host:<inviting questions from the chatroom but chatroom monitor claimed there were no questions being asked that Billie had not yet answered.>




Host: Billie, here's the reality of tonight's interview so far the police have lied about everything they've lied about everything in the affidavit, again the perception, and even though Shawn has threatened to kill you and you have a restraining order against him: . He's a great guy.

BJD: yeah

Host:Do you see now how people just looking in would go..

BJD: no, I did in the beginning, now. I don't understand it at all. In the beginning yeah.

Host: What do you mean in the beginning? I'm confused

BJD: when Before people knew anything, before people only had to go on what the police was putting out there but now so much more has come out and it's pointing to many other areas… It's

Host: Let's talk about that. That's great. Let's get away from Shawn let's talk about what is the evidence out there pointing in other directions. The floor is yours. Billie, this is good

BJD: the simple fact is nothing happened to Hailey inside my house. For a fact Somebody took her out of the house or snatched her off the Street. Cadaver dogs have been in my house, not just Linda's also law enforcement they been in and around my house. My car's been looked at. Nothing happened to Hailey inside that house umm.. I can't get over the fact that a sex offender who has more rapes and kidnaps than I have teeth in my mouth is not being looked at, Because he's a good guy. He's lived near within 20 miles of three missing teenagers. That's a hell of a coincidence but he's not being looked at cuz he's a good guy.


Host: Backup what you mean not being looked at because he's a good guy. How do you come to that conclusion who told you that?

BJD: the Colorado city police said that this man is a good guy. A hard-working…

Carrie: actually, it was the sheriff and the DA investigator who said to me only got them all wrong. He's a good guy and you said would you have him watch your kids and they said well absolutely not. But he's a good guy.

Host: But what was his offense what put them on the sex offender list.

BJD: many rapes

Carrie: there's multiple offenses.

BJD: There's also at least one kidnapping but there's, I mean, multiple rapes since he was about 17. AndI guess he's I don't know now nearing 50.

<Host: and Carrie - Discussion of a sex offender in Colorado city out of Klackamas, Oregon, who was also living in the region of Hailey's disappearance. He's now in Texas.>


Host: Billie tell us more about things that are out there  that point to other people

BJD: well those are the main things the fact that Shawn didn't have much time to do much of anything and umm..  really, I don't see how we could hold it in all by himself to himself, for this long and be living this close with her family. The main things are the sex offenders that bother me the because from day one  They asked how I felt about it. And I said I live on I 20 that really bothers me and the chief of police said, "you know that just doesn't happen here." And I just looked at him like he was joking . I said "you got to be kidding me. Yeah it happens everywhere." And unfortunately it's gonna happen again. There was also. It's been a while maybe five or six months ago umm.. A guy had been out raping women in C city. I think he lives in Lorraine they arrested him. They let them out. I'm sure that the girl said he threatened to kill me had a knife to me and I got away. I bet you they didn't question him once about Hailey. I bet you they didn't.

Host: Let me ask you something. There's been a couple of things pop up in chat. Maybe you can clear this up there something about earrings… question about the earings that were found at Clint's tell me about that

BJD: Hailey had put in some red hoop earrings. They are the kind that you do body piercings with. They're bigger than a regular earing. So she put those in to stretch her earlobes. I told her keep them in otherwise they'll go right back to small so she put them in. They Had been in for a few days so when I reported her missing wearing those red hoop earrings. And After Clint moved out of his apartment or when he was moving out, packing up. David was over there helping him. He found Hailey's red earing on the floor and brought it home to me. And I called the police. So one of the earrings was found.

Host: So does that mean that she was at Clint's what does that mean ?

BJD: I think.. I think she went by there even if she wasn't there for long. I think she went by there. They were in there. Maybe she took them off Sunday night. She did spend the night there.

Host: You can't tell when they were there. That's the thing, so.. Somebody's asking me about an Xbox video is that anything but I don't know what that means. Do you know what that means?

BJD: yeah, Hailey's Yep, Hailey was playing her brothers Xbox I guess that was Sunday night, was playing on the X box. It takes pictures of you just randomly I guess I heard. I was told that in that video it looks like she's wearing the red hoop earrings

Host: So that night it looks like she's wearing the earrings that were found at Clint's house

BJD: right only one of them was found. I never got to see the video. I was told by Billie Sykes Hailey look so happy jumping around. Would you like to see that. Hould like see those pictures. I said I would love to see those pictures and he said I'll get them to you. I've never seen them.

<Another few minutes if discussion of registered sex offender was in Oregon committed crimes in Oregon and was in the area of the bombs this. At times she went missing and was currently in Colorado city around the time Hailey Dunn is missing. Police will notextradite him to Clackamas County>

BJD: I bet they say he's a good guy too. It would be just like them.

Host: Okay. Is there anyone else that you can think of that LE is not looking at?

BJD: Oh yeah! There's some names that I don't want to say but we had chief Dewley. He was fired from, I think Taylor county because he had his girlfriend naked, chained up in the closet.

Host: what?

BJD: oh yeah! And that's a fact! Talk about weirdos. There, There's this, there's this, umm.. They've, people on the police force who had homosexual relationships with my neighbor and my neighbor not getting along with me. And My neighbor being a pedophile dating my son's friend's sister. She was actually living there with him playing basketball with MY daughter, which I never approved of. I mean. And he's weird, anyways, having girls and guys spend the night with him at the same time. in my opinion. and other people telling me this guy is a window peeper. I've always been leery of him also. That guy was also at work a couple of days before Hailey went missing talking about killing himself and acting strange. And he's never been looked at either. He is like I said in sexual relationships with some of the city workers in Colorado city. Some have actually been fired because they were actually caught in public, having sex.

Host: Wow That sounds like Colorado city is one crazy wild place.

BJD: <Shouting> There's proof.. No! The police officers that can't make it in other towns they go to Colorado city!

Host: That's scary.

BJD: we've never had officers longer than a year, I mean they're in and out

Host: Let's talk about Hailey because with all of this stuff going on Hailey, and this can happen in every missing child case where there's a lot of media, the child themselves kind of get lost in it all. Billie Dunn tell us about your daughter, Hailey.


BJD: Hailey is the most beautiful girl in the world. She's very smart, very loud and outgoing umm.. Funny. She's got a great sense of humor umm.. Likes all different kinds of music. She's very fun to be around, she's also stubborn and hardheaded but but always fun to be around, she's very much. She's so much like me. She's very strong-willed and a great sense of humor.

Host: was Clint involved in her life a lot were they close?

BJD: yes they were they were particularly close, After Clint and I separated. I think Hailey was 10 years old. Clint took it pretty hard and Hailey needed to be there for her dad and she did and she was there with him a lot she started going spending the night with hima lot. She was around him a lot, she was scared of what he might do to himself and they got a lot closer after he moved out. She had always been pretty much a mama's girl until then and then she just she got really close to her Dad.

Host: What do you mean by what he would do to himself

BJD: I don't really like getting into this, he was very depressed.

Host: She was just worried about her dad is what you are saying.

BJD: yeah yeah

Host: Do you think in your opinion that Clint or anyone in his family, perhaps knows something that they aren't telling? what do you feel about that?

BJD: I don't feel like Clint does. I definitely feel like Naomi's mother has lied so many times and what for? She's.. She has told so many lies you she can't get anything straight and I don't understand why. I know that I know Hailey and Naomi were very jealous of each other umm.. I know that Clint doesn't know where Hailey is

Host: Are you implying that maybe in your opinion Naomi might have more information?

BJD: umm.. I'm, I am not, I'm just not real sure about Naomi. I think I wouldn't be surprised if her mom did, but there, I'm not,  I don't know. There's just so many open ends to this.

Host: Naomi is Clint's girlfriend. Clint is Hailey's dad and Connie is Naomi's mother. No, Patricia, Patricia is Naomi's mother. Who is Connie?

BJD: Clint's mom

Host: That is Hailey's grandmother. Why would she lie? Now. She did say that Hailey was very afraid of Shawn did she not?

BJD: She did say that. Connie has never liked Shawn. Clint and Shawn fought. But if Hailey was scared of Shawn, She would have definitely told me and she would've definitely told her dad and her uncle. Most definitely.

Host:  you don't think there's a possibility that she'd maybe she didn't because she was too scared. She just didn't know what would happen or you don't think thats a possibility?

BJD: that's just not Hailey.No

Carrie: I talked to Clint a lot and asked him whether he thought Shawn was a threat to Hailey and he said no he didn't think that was an issue or anything else that Hailey would have told him things. If, but, you know, if it's going this long family split up. There was this time when I quit talking with my mother and I couldn't stand my mother because it hurt so much when you don't have answers that you just are grasping at straws but Clint said "I don't think Billie or Shawn had anything to do with that, I can't bring myself to think that." But I'm sure in time it's changed. Naomi and Clint both said had lie detectors and they passed them but I don't think that.. I don't know, that Patricia, Naomi's mother, ever took one and she doesn't.. She does lie and that things that come out all over the place are a lot of her lies.

Host: are you talking about Clint's mom or Naomi's mom.

BJD: Naomi's

Host: I still don't understand why Connie, Clint's mother would lie about that. It's Because you're saying that she didn't like Shawn?

BJD: she doesn't like Shawn and also I know she wants somebody to blame -which we all do. But She has said Billie's a great mother Billie and Shawn never did anything, and then she went to oh Shawn did something and Billie knows it and then back to Billie and Shawn didn't do anything. The police need to look elsewhere and then back to they did something or we know something. So she's not made up her mind yet.

Carrie: that's what happens. I think this happens with every case when you're grasping for some kind of answer. You look at everything. I know at one point my own mother thought that I had something to do with Amber's disappearance. My own mother. It's what happens when you're so desperate for answer and to you grasp at anything you can people go back and forth. And it's such that everybody wants to find Hailey so bad that you're mind plays tricks on you after a while. You don't know where to look at so you go back and forth. You know I've gone back and forth that Billie knows something, you know. One day. I'm like okay she doesn't. No, she does, and Billie will tell you I've called her up. "Do you know anything?", And we go back and forth because everyone wants an answer and no one we don't know anything. It's like Ambers case we just don't know what happened to Hailey Dunn

Host: and the frustration just bubbles over and the..

Carrie:and your mind just plays tricks on you .

Host: Billie lets go back to the affidavit. Billie you stated that pretty much everything in there is a lie. This is an affidavit they used to get a search warrant to search the car. In the affidavit they talk about David, witnessing Shawn come in that day come home that day with like this deer in headlights look after he broke in. Was that it? I'm confused. What about that?

BJD: David, when David came home and knocked Shawn didn't let him in. Shawn said he was in the bedroom watching TV. So David says he knocked and Shawn didn't answer. There's plexiglass in the door and it was broken so David stuck his arm in there and unlocked the door and went in and Shawn came out into the hallway and looked startled. I guess just because David walked in and he wasn't expecting anybody.

Host: So that in the affidavit is true. That did happen?


BJD: yes

Host: About what time was that do you remember?

BJD: five o'clock

Host: They took the sheets from your bedroom, right

BJD: no

Host: I thought they took the sheets. They took Hailey sheets.

BJD: Her bottom sheet only

Host: Did you hear anything. Did they find anything?

BJD: They didn't

Host: There's two stories about where Shawn was, When David came home I've heard that he was watching TV like you said in the bedroom. But then I've also read that he was in the bathroom but you were saying he was in the bedroom. Correct?

BJD: yes

Host: the big question a lot of people ask this question Billie and I don't want you to think I'm being mean I'm not trying to be mean but I think it's it is a fair question. What have you done lately to find Hailey?

BJD: lately I just wanna talk to FBI.

Host: Why is that?

BJD: And you know what I've done probably the most for Hailey, I've got her on TV. Me and my friends made the first flyers and passed them out, I reported her missing. I got KlaasKids in. I got team Amber and Laura recovery center and human trafficking 911. We got Hope for Hailey started. Its endless and I'm not the only one. Many people I've done many things for Hailey that aren't getting credit for

Host: Let's list them I would love to hear them. Can you do that for us right now

BJD: Courtney Deteris (sp?) has gone above and beyond being a great friend starting the website for Hailey, having a website where kids can report straight to the police station the police didn't like that idea at first. She's done so much she paid for the website. When I offered to she did it. Holly Jenkins has been looking for Hailey since day one and has spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on gas looking looking for my daughter. She has waded in nasty creek water up to her waist 30° weather. There so many people.

Host: Why did you move people want to know why did you move?

BJD: this was planned many years ago. Clint even knows this. That I would moving as soon as David graduated I was getting out of there and returning to South Texas

Host: How is David how is he doing?

BJD: he's doing. He seems to be doing. He's very well considering the situation.

Host: it is probably very stressful. Billie. I know you've been very good and staying on this long with us were gonna wrap it up here shortly. What would you say to the kidnappers because there could be somebody listening tonight and who could listen to the show later if they come on and listen to the pre-recorded show after it done. They could be listening. They could've taken Hailey what would you like to say to them?

BJD: That is my daughter. I chose to have her for me. I wanted a daughter. I had a daughter. God gave her to me. She's mine. She's not.. She wasn't born to be somebody's plaything or whatever. She was born to be my daughter. I want my daughter back more than anything I want her back. If I have to have her back then nobody be punished so be it. I just want her back. I can't live without my daughter.

Host: What would you like us to do web sleuths, Web sleuths members, what would you like us to do to help find Hailey

BJD: not forget my daughter and not give up hope on her. She can come home and we can make her better through therapy whatever she needs. She can come home and be okay

Host: There's a name that keeps popping up here and I'm not familiar with it. Forgive me if it's not appropriate - Brian Glasco who is that?

BJD: that is Clint's half brother, who threatened mine and Hailey's lives and Clint brought that up to the police in the beginning and I don't think the police have ever contacted him. That's why his name comes up.


Host: Billie I want you to know that web sleuths members, We won't forget Hailey we never have. We have a very active forum that's active every day about Hailey and if there are any searches organized you can let us know and we will be there to help her,help you search for Hailey, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that this has helped clear up some misconceptions people are still bothered by the fact that Shawn threatened to kill you. That will always bother people because it sounds abusive and I'm worried personally that maybe you're.. Ie threatened to kill you and that worries me. That when you say he's a great guy that scares me to be honest, so I want you to know that that were here for you if you want to talk again we would be happy to. Carrie, what would you like to say?

Carrie: I do want to say one thing and that's Billie has come to me multiple times and asked me what to do and she has way better than I ever was for anybody Klaas kids will tell you and Laura Recovery will tell you that I was the biggest pain in the butt and any advice that I got from anybody. I did not care about and Billie has gone above doing.. I mean. She has listened to every advice sometimes it's backfired. Billy can agree to that.  she's called. She says what can I do tell me where to go and every time there's an opportunity for her to do something, recently with the FBI coming out with the kidnapped poster and I asked her to go local news station. With a friend out of Austin she was right there. I asked her I finally got the flyers done so that she could put flyers up and she was all over it. And she's never come back to me saying, can you break up with Shawn and she goes, no.

Carrie: She's done everything that I or anyone else has asked her to do. But she's she clearly says. I amlost. I don't know what to do tell me what to do and I will do it. And she has of also asked multiple times law enforcement to get her a liaison and forward to or in e-mails Billie needs a liaison someone that she can trust someone she could do talk to her I'm not in law enforcement but Billie needs somebody she can talk to she can trust. She needs that family information officer that she feels comfortable with and they've ignored that all away down to the fact that she went to court go to the courthouse and introduce yourself to Billie and who showed up. The sheriff showed up at the courthouse. They they don't reach out and try there's people out there. They have an advocacy Center for victims to have someone there. Billie needs somebody that she can trust. They can be her liaison with law-enforcement because she doesn't want to go and be railroaded by them. In my opinion they're not doing everything they can to help with this case.

Host: This is been very informative and helpful to me personally. Billie one thing you can do is be seen and heard more often.
<snip>

BJD:. I do know I do know there are so many people who do want to help and there's so many people who have their minds made up and there said that they don't care what kind of evidence is produced. They're not gonna change their minds and I just don't want to put me and Shawn right in the spotlight again. I want it on Hailey. I want it on Hailey we have all tried very hard to get Hailey in the spotlight

Host: The best way to get Hailey in the spotlight is to get you in the spotlight. The most dangerous place to be in the world was between Mark Klass and a TV camera because he was always there. The only way Polly could be heard was through Mark's voice. You've got to be Hailey's voice and so..

BJD: right. And when I did that daily what did everybody say, that I just want to be on TV looking cute, you can't win.

Host: You got to ignore those people

BJD: yes I want my daughter remembered. I want everybody to be looking for her. I want everybody to know all about Hailey everywhere

Host: Ignore the trolls that say that. To hell with them forget about them. You be Hailey's voice and let us help you

BJD: right. I feel the same. I am